>> was it lincoln or roosevelt? >> set your dvr so you never miss us. "special report" is next. the supreme court gets another chance to bite out of obama care. this this is "special report." good evening. last year the nation's highest court kept the president's health care plan alive. next year it will get another shot at obama care through a challenge to the plan's highly controversial contraception mandate. >> this is an incredibly significant case. >> reporter: for the second time, the supreme court is gearing up to hear a challenge to president obama's achievement, the affordable care act. a regulation from health and

human services that requires employer who is provide health insurance coverage to employees to do so in a way that gives workers ast access to contra including methods that. can cause abortion. there are more than 70 challenges to the mandate pending. it it will hear arguments on two combined cases. one involving hobby lobby and the other is conestoga wood. owners of both companies argue their religious convictions will be violate d. . they are forced to come ply with the federal regulation. >> the government is trying to say it's all right to worship in your church on sunday, but it's not okay to carry those believes out in how you live your life and specifically in how you run your business. >> david courtman says "a government that forces any citizen to participate in immoral acts like the use of abortion drugs under threat of crippling fines is a government

everyone should fear." supporters of the mandate say it's essential to women's health and the heart ofback care itself. in a statement today, the health care law puts women and families in control of their health care by covering preventive care like cancer screenings and birth control free of charge. the president believes that no one, including the government or for profit corporations should be able to dictate those decisions to women. and though a brand new poll released show 59% of those surveyed don't think employers should be forced, it will be june 2014 before we know what the justices think. the challenges to the mandate come under the religious freedom restoration act. one says it it wasn't meant to protect companies like hobby lobby. >> it was never about giving for profit companies the right to ignore laws that they somehow

believe incidentally on the pref ri violate some kind of corporate conscious. >> the regulation has sparked controversy and more public comments than any other regulation related to obama care. 250,000. the move by democrats last week to change the rules on confirmation votes has awakened fears of what are called death panels. we connect the dots tonight. >> reporter: after majority leader harry reid changed the rulings to allow presidential normal e knees to be confirmed with 51 votes, president obama will be able to build the advisory board with just democratic support. it is a 15-member panel created with obama care and the role is to slow the growth in medicare spending. a republican from texas who is a medical doctor says he worries about its influence. >> it is an increase in power by the agency and the executive

branch. they are people well removed from the active practice of medicine. that becomes more problematic when you think the damage it does, this is -- this may be the final straw. >> sarah palin called this group death panels and was blasted for it. now some are not disputing it could lead to rationing of care. >> it's going to be a huge issue. >> so you believe there will be rationing or death panels? >> it's built into the plan. it's not like a guess or a judgment. that's going to be part of how costs are controlled. >> former governor howard dean also a doctor is against it writing in "the wall street journal" in july "by setting doctor reimbursement rates and determining which procedures and drugs will be covered and at what price, the it will be able to stop certain treatments its members do not favor by setting rates where no doctor or

hospital will perform them." they insist co-pays won't go up. . >> what could change eventually is if the plan includes certain tweaks to reimbursement rates that the government pays to hospitals and doctors, but even that is subject to congressional approval. so there's checks and balances in the system. >> congress has the right to vote the recommendations up or down, but if there's gridlock. >> if we can't agree, then the secretary has the ability to implement the cuts of the board. they go through in spite of congressional disapproval. >> that is a big concern for critics, the possibility of more power for kathleen sebelius if the president doesn't nominate members or if congress clashes over their work. >> thank you. today president obama went to a place that gets a lot of movie pitches to make an

economic pitch. he told supporters one of holly weed's big studios is getting better. james rosen at the white house tells us the numbers show on both issues the public isn't buying it it. >> with less than a week to go before the relaunch of the obama care website, president obama toured dreamworks animation with a top campaign donor getting a firsthand look at how hollywood transforms the mundane into the magical. then mr. obama watched martin and jim parsons record dialogue. >> i have fixed my mistake. >> yes, but before that, you have made mistakes. >> getting his marks the president focused on economy touting rapid growth in the market share of smart phone systems and other advances but also acknowledging the many mistakes that created the rough debut of obama care. >> here in southern california

and across this state, there are thousands of people every single day who are getting health care for the first time. for the first time because of this. and by the way, the website is working better so check it it out. >> the conference board reported consumer confidence dropped 2 points in october to its lowest level since april with fear about hiring and the cancellation of millions of health insurance policies. >> the fact that the $600 million we spend on healthcare.gov and doesn't work, that's only the tip of the iceberg. maybe they will get that fixed. >> kathleen sebelius vowed the sequel will be better than the original. >> we're definitely on track to have a significantly difference user experience by the end of

this month. that was our commitment than people experienced on october 1st. the experience is vastly improved each and every day. >> if any president could benefit from a hollywood rewrite, it's the incumbent. it's damaged mr. obama's approval ratings. even assessments on his confidence and honesty. one historian sees no modern president succeeding in the tasks facing this one. >> bill clinton with i did not have sex with that woman faced a similar kind of credibility crisis. and did manage to exit with good popularity ratings. that was a personal issue, not a policy issue. the american people are always willing to listen to a president who has something to tell them. i think he still has a chance to get some of that trust back, but this was a blow. there's no doubt about it. >> california led the country in

sign ups for obama care, but was also hit with wave of cancellations. >> thank you, james. the dow gained a fraction today to close at yet another record high. the s&p was also up about a quarter. nasdaq gained 23. u.s. border patrol agents were pelted with rocks and bottles sunday as they tried to stop dozens of people who had crossed the border illegally. several agents were hit with the projectiles. reenforcements were brought in. up next, the holiday travel season gets off to a messy and dangerous start. here's some of what our affiliates are covering tonight. oakland with a mass shooting that injured seven people including a father walking down the street with his children. wofl in orlando was a woman so upset about government spending she paid her entire $11,000 tax

bill in $1 bills and pennies. that will teach them. >> this is a live look at philadelphia from wtxf. the big story is the approaching storm and what it's going to do to your holiday travel. that's tonight's live look outside the beltway. we'll be right back.

get iting over the river an through the woods to grandmother's house might be tough. a massive winter storm is causing all kinds of travel problems. we are live at reagan national airport. >> reporter: it's the calm before the storm here. we expect big crowds tomorrow and plenty of bad weather too with cancellations and flight delays that go along with it that will ripple through the

nation's airports. in the meantime, this storm has already pruchb to be a deadly one claiming at least 11 lives nationwide. in some places the storm has hit hard already. this driver found out in oklahoma city. in west texas, the situation was not better with five inches of snow making driving a risky business. it's still the calm before the storm in many spots along the east coast. like in pittsburgh where they are getting ready for an expected snowfall of six to eight inches. the a nation's airports, delays due to the bad weather. >> i have been delayed for like three hours. >> i came for a flight at 6:00 a.m. and it was delayed because of the weather and then they said something about the aircraft. >> reporter: passengers are

getting lots of advice including get to the aurpt in plenty of time. >> stay calm and get to the airport early. normally we say two hours. but with this weather, probably closer to three hours. >> reporter: there are higher fares and fewer flights. a formula frr passenger frustration. one silver lining this thanksgiving, those hefty change fees are being waived. >> in big storms, they are waiving the fees in order to get people to change their reservations a day or two ahead of time instead of all doing it the same day at the airport when there's so few resources to change them with. >> reporter: it's not just air travel. the highways will be crowded on thanksgiving as well. an estimated 43 million people will be hitting the roads and traveling at least 50 miles from home. time for extra caution at this very busy travel time across the country. >> always good advice. thank you, steve. let's get the latest on the

storm. >> if you can avoid getting on the road tomorrow, do so. do the drive on thursday. everything will be fine by then. we have to get through now and tomorrow. we'll see more delays. airports right now looking pretty good. i think tomorrow they are going to be worse. the big cities that were expecting the delays at this point no delays at all. tomorrow the wind increases a lot. that's going to be a big problem for it. all this moisture across the eastern part of the country, but really the main energy is still down to the south. parts of the central gulf. it's got to make its way to the eastern sea board so we have a ways to go before we're done. tornado concerns in the carolinas. be prepared for that as well. but it's rain now and snow across upstate new york and parts of pennsylvania. we're doing going to see warmer air move in. that means all the cities looking at a rain event. take a look at temperatures in new york city. boston to 44.

that tells you we're talking about all rain. but it is all snow on the backside of this. by tomorrow morning, we're going to see some snow around atlanta and heavier snow across the appalachians and towards pittsburgh and buffalo. some of the areas picking up a foot of snow. it's going to be very, very windy with this, though. because of that, tomorrow, big delays. new york and the surrounding airports looking for delays. the rest of the country, if your flight is not originating there, the rest of the country is looking very fine. it's just the east coast storm we have to get through. >> rick, thank you. >> you bet. still ahead, someone figured out a way to work around the glitches on the obama care website.

afghanistan's unpredictable president is trying to squeeze him for everything. we look at what may be behind hamid karzai's behavior. >> to understand hamid karzai, you need to look at vladimir putin. just returned from afghanistan and says karzai's unwillingness to sign a security deal with the u.s. has to do with his desire to stay relevant after the presidential election in april when according to the constitution he must step down. >> there are a lot of comparisons with putin and obviously each country is different, but i think what you see is someone who has probably in his own mind convinced himself that what's good for him is what's good for afghanistan.

>> reporter: some think karzai is trying to position himself as putin did in russia so his successor is weak and easily controlled by karzai. not signing the security deal until after the election prevents him from becoming a lame duck. >> he's bought the logic that he was the only one that could hold it it together. in my years of going there, the one thing afghans agree on is he's the one guy that's been the corrupt cancer at the core of it it. >> national security adviser susan rice who left kabul empty handed told the leader there would be no more negotiations over legal immunity should any be asked o stay. >> it's been a tough negotiation and we have been very clear about our desire to sign it. >> reporter: a month earlier secretary of state john kerry pronounced the deal done. then karzai changed his mind saying he would not sign it before the presidential election in april. >> president karzai is petrified

of what his life and power looks like after the elections happen. i think this is a rather play for power than mental instability. >> reporter: some say the u.s. should ignore karzai and begin making plans without him. others fear the president and white house may welcome a zero troop option if karzai continues to force their hand. we're learning more about a cia plot that sounds like something straight from a movie. our intelligence correspondent tells us how the good guys try to turn bad guys into our guys. >> we have independently confirmed the exist tense of a prom first reported that the cia used to turn guantanamo detainees into double agents with mixed results. one source familiar with the program says the bush administration never provided hard numbers on the detainees at guantanamo. some prisoners were part of the

cia program and left the camps under the radar. today the ap posted this satellite image showing where the cia ran its operation from a facility known as penny lane. to identify trustworthy assets, the cia used incentives like cash or promised to resettle their families in a safe country out of al qaeda's reach. this is another shot of the administrative buildings. just beyond the buildings and the hills hiding in plain sight are reported to be the bungalows where they enjoy private accommodations and television sets. >> my sources have said that some of the decisions to turn some of these were controversial. for example, military intelligence officials did not find the process pecks of using them as double agents to be that promising while others found them to be useful. >> the cia program was known only to a select few what's offer referred as highly

compartmentalized. one who was not in on the program says it appears to be an effort to gather intelligence immediately after the 9/11 ape tacks when another strike seems imminent. >> it's against the backdrop that we had to think outside the box. this was not the u.s. versus the soviet union. >> the number of detainees who were confirmed or suspects of returning to terrorism after leaving guantanamo is 28%. that's nearly 1 in 3. it's not known publicly whether any of these released under the program are among them. >> thank you. riot police in egypt fired water canons at protesters demonstrated against a controversial new law. it's a move towards a authoritarian path. the only aircraft airier is headed for its first drills in the south china sea.

the mission with the crew and equipment over long distances in a variety of conditions. it's previously sailed off the northeast coast. a greek tragedy that isn't and what do you get when a first grader beats up his 220-pound teacher. the grapevine is next.

now fresh pickings from the the political grapevine. the world health organization is admitting that greeks are not deliberately infecting themselves with hiv in large numbers to get government benefits. last month the w.h.o. wrote that rates have risen significantly with about half of new hiv infections being self-inflicted to receive government assistance and faster admission on to drug substitution programs. today the w.h.o. published a correction. the authors based the line on just a handful of cases mentioned in a medical journal study. you might laugh at lawsuits like a woman stopping from killing herself, but the group. s new yorkers to know they are paying for these lawsuits. here's an example. a 220-pound former college football player is suing the school district saying he was beat up by a 50-pound first

grader. the teacher says he couldn't defend himself and if he d he'd have gone to jail. it's left him humiliated and defamed. they asked why the school is responsible for the man getting kung fewed from a first grader and why taxpayers should be on the hook for it. the city is fighting back. rather than settling. it's not easy being a 1%. a major donor to president obama hosting a lavish fundraiser in beverly hills complained when he had dinner at the white house there was no valet parking. he took it in stride and joked back it was done on purpose to help him get a little exercise. speaking of the president and health care, the administration is taking a beating over the obama care website. we have some ingenious folks who figured out a way around some of those problems. >> there is no doubt that people are frustrated.

>> reporter: while president obama has been doing damage control over rocky rollout of healthcare.gov, two tech buddies brainstormed and launched a guide that lets users quickly compare health insurance plans. >> we are a compliment to healthcare.gov. you can explore your options without the pain of the signup processes. they added a user-friendly interface. type in whether you smoke, your area and age, and walla. >> i know exactly which plans exist, which subsidies i can get for them and what the premiums are for exactly my family. >> reporter: from there user can enroll at healthcare.gov or their insurance company. t tens of thousands of people have clicked on the siep yun online tab. there's no advertiser and these guys aren't making money. for them it's a public service. >> about nine months ago i wanted to focus on health care

in general and really have the biggest impact on society that i could possibly have. this is a great outlet for that. >> reporter: by the end of the week, the website will be up in all 50 states and soon make health experts available to give guidance to consumers. they say they are not trying to compete with the fed's. they want uninsured americans to have access and peace of mind. >> at the end of the day, it's not about how you sign up. it's about actually signing up and get. ing insurance. >> reporter: a few glitches are still being worked out. but unlike a lot of people, they give props to the federal website and the contractor who is did the leg work to gather the data and make it public. a lawyer for the woman killed by police after a car chase from the white house to the capital is requesting a justice department investigation. she was shot after she tried to ram her car into. a white house barrier and fled the to chicago.

the attorney says he believes the officers mishandled the encounter. police are veging as part of their standard procedure. the supreme court takes another run at obama care. we'll take a run at the story with the fox all stars when we return.

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talk to your cvs prmacist, ll, or go to cvs.com/compare to get your free, personalized pl comparison today. call, go online, or visit your local store today. it would be a terrible precedent for the supreme court to set, to tell americans they give up a fundamental freedom just because they decide to open a family business and pursue the american dream. >> this is not anything but an incidental infringement on a claim of religious liberty. if every company in this country has the right to exempt itself from any law it dun like, you no longer have a society. you kind of have anarchy. >> obama care round two headed to the supreme court in the spring. let's talk about it with our

panel. good to see all of you tonight. what do you make of this? the supreme court decided to weigh in. more than 70 of these cases challenging the contraceptive mandate. it will violate their believes if they have to provide costs of birth control and contraceptive access to employees. >> it's a challenge of a corporation or not. in fact, that's the argument being made in one of the lower court decisions that based on the high courts ruling that a corporation is to be a person, then person has religious believes and you must respect them. the argument is one that this is a for profit enterprise. it's not a nonprofit religious business. this is a for profit corporation. if you allow for profit corporations to make these kinds of decisions, basically you're

entering into anarchy. i could join in a religion that says paying taxes is not within our religion. >> you could sign me up for that one. >> they would say it's not our religion to pay taxes. sorry. that would break down. the politics is just rich because you have the democrats saying this was about women's rights and women's preventive medicine and you have republicans on the other hand saying we're standing with people who feel their religious rights are being violated. >> the the primary case is hobby lobby. the family behind it said they found it on biblical principles. they don't want to live one way on sunday, but go to work on monday abandon all the things they believe in. finding a balance here is what the justices have to decide. >> it turns on a question of whether a corporation is a person. that became the big thing in the

campaign last year where mitt romney said you're taxing a corporation, you're taxing people. he was condemned by that. this is going to turn on same kinds of issues that were in citizens united, which is a court case that president obama just hates. >> the supreme court lied during the save the union address that provoking the response of justice alito. >> that case turned on corporations are like people have political rights. so the question is with this little company, it's an interesting question because it is very viscerally run by people who have believes. so that's what it's going to turn on. it it comes down to the problem with the command and control health care system that the president put in place. >> my inbox flooded with reaction from organizations all

over the place from pro-life, pro-choice groups. there's a conversation about blocking women pr access of health care, but this is about who is going to pay for it. no one is saying you can't get contraception. >> no one is going to prevent women from purchasing contraceptives. that's clearly a misrepresentation. a deliberate one that the left presents is a way to scare people about this. in this case, you have the contaminated issue of a corporation. there are other cases coming along that don't involve corporations, which involve catholic hospitals, catholic schools, catholic charities and other religious charities with where the corp. issue isn't there, but it's about the nature of religion. it's about a belief of secular america. it's a particular who craft a law like this that religion is what happens on sunday and the rest of your life is

nonreligious outside of the church. and the people who really are religious understand that that's a complete misunderstanding of what religion is. if you're involved in a catholic soup kitchen, you're living out your faith every day of the week in your work. and thus if you are forced to offer contra acceptive to people who are in the kitchen, you have been made to violate a principle that you believe. it's completely immoral. we can argue whether it it ought to be or not. i think that really is the issue. so when those cases, which are percolating up behind this one, the ones of the catholic or religious institutions, i think it's going to be a much stronger impulse to strike down that provision of the law as a violation. >> are you saying that you think the court will rule in favor of the obama administration? >> i say when these cases arise,

the ones involving the private corporations, it's probably, in my view, a 50/50. >> i think you're being kind. >> because of the employer issue whether it is an individual or -- >> here's the thing i would say to you. in this hobby lobby case, the people involved say it's okay. they are willing to offer contraceptive services. they object to the morning after pill. you're opening the door r to employers saying, we don't like this, we like that. >> for people believe that can cause an abortion and there's science that these folks cite, that's a different thing. they don't want to be funding an abortion. they are guaranteeing they won't have to do that. >> i'm saying that's a standard policy. they are imposing that on their employees. >> they are not saying they can't get them.

they are saying we don't want to pay for them. >> the law is forcing us to be complicit with what we believe under our religion is a form of murder. and that is different from contraception, which doesn't involve the destruction of an embryo. so if you have contraception that prevents implantation, that would be under theology acceptable. it's not as if i'm going to pick and choose, i like this, i don't like this. it's actually a serious principle. for people who are serious about religion, this is not a trivial issue at all. >> this is what happens when you federalize health care system and you have this one size fits all system where you're picking and the government is deciding what has to be in health care policies. this goes to the flip side of this, the other side of this is people who have these streamlined health care policies where they don't want things

like maternity care and have policies being cancelled because they don't have all of those in it. it's command and control system that's federalizing these explosive social issues that washington doesn't need to be getting in the middle of them. >> the court has been praised and criticized based on where you're coming from for upholding obama care last year. the environment has changed quite a bit. the polling has changed quite a bit. you have to wonder whether that's going to exact this time around. al it's a different issue. >> it's not going to undermine the law. had you struck down the individual mandate, obama care would have collapsed because it wouldn't have a financial source and income. here it would attack it it at the edges, but in principle it's an important issue. >> we shall see. thank you all for a spirited debate. next up, president obama goes hollywood.

the rollout of snew health care marketplace was rough. and nobody was more frustrated about the problems with our website than i am. and yet here in southern california and here across this state there are thousands of people every single day who are getting health care for the first time. >> if the website had rolled out badly but the plan promise had been kept, again, it would have been a containable problem. it's when you get the two of them working together that you have something that really kind of stirs a the lot of people and gets to a place in the public

consciousness that is hard to erase. >> the president heading to the west coast fundraising and speaking out on key issues. let's talk about them with our panel. you heard do you think that the west coast and the folks out there the celebrities and the studios he has visited is the right audience for this conversation? >> the right audience? well, i think, you know, it's david geffins's studio. is he a huge supporter of the president. there is question whether the president should be there because is he rewarding one of his big financial contributors. they are supporters so he has got to start with the democratic base in terms of rebuilding support. in the opinion polls where you have seen the lead it's not been republicans who are opposed to obamacare it's among democrats and independence. if he starts to rebuild first his own standing but secondly faith in the

process and the system, he has got to make the case to democrats. >> he is also make the case about the economy. five years over when i took over. fought our way back, made choices to rebuild our he economy. new foundations, reversing our dependence on foreign oil. he said today the economy is improving and looking good. >> really not last time i checked. i think the optics of this are awful. it's ♪ just about obamacare as you say. this is a president who is constantly talking about the income gap and the plight of middle class folks. gap has gotten wider. the rich are doing great. a booming stock market at the upper end of the income level corporate profits are doing pretty well. at the upper end people are doing well. middle class people are not let's take young black males. 38, 40% unemployment. long-term unemployment for people in the middle --

median income levels. people sitting out months and years and can't get back to the job market. what has he done for them? it's a really bad idea to go out talking to wealthy movie executives about that. >> charles, that's part of what a president does though. they go to their base. they have to go do fundraisers and talk to people who supported them. >> in most administrations, yes, it is part. for obama it is the whole. obama runs the presidency as if his main job, his only job is rhetorical and political, shore up the base, make speeches. it's all rhetoric. he has got a crisis of management. he has got a system that doesn't work. it's his signature legislation. it's sort of the heart, the symbol of the embodiment of his idea of a caring, progressive central government. it's a mess. and he is now on the west coast. if you had, let's take a romney and the olympics in salt lake. he goes in there, it's a mess. he is a manager.

he butts head together. is he up night and day working on getting people who are going -- obama says well, i don't write code. it's not that people want him to write code. they want him to be in washington, organize underlings and get a system going in which he can make a promise that obamacare, the web site will be up on december 1st and it will actually happen is there anybody who believes it's going to be up and running on december the 1st? he is now on these trips. it's amazing to me he became president on the basis of rhetoric. he has conducted the presidency on rhetoric. and he perpetuates it there is an element of this that's a bit like running a candy store. he has never run anything. it's as if he is a bystander who makes speeches. i think it's rather remarkable. who and where and what is happening here to actually make his idea, this conception he had of obama care of healthcare that encompasses everybody to actually make it a reality.

sebelius? >> juan a year ago when he was reelected to a second term by majority of americans. at some point they felt he would be able to deliver on promises. he is also talking about climate change and immigration. something he has been adamant he is going to get done with the gridlock on capitol hill i'm not sure he does that at this point how much is his legacy in jeopardy with this tough patch during his second term? >> well, at the moment, it doesn't look good. that's just momentary. we know how quickly things can change. a month ago we were talking about republicans being in dire straits because of the shutdown. those numbers have reversed in terms it of election on congressional ballots. today republicans are slightly up within the margin of error. they were down by 10 points a month ago. i see americans are saying you know what, obamacare effects us down the road. it's a big mess. what about jobs? what about things that effect me directly? why don't you pay attention to those things?

i think that's a bigger issue. i think the republicans obviously don't cooperate. we have got budget talks coming in december. those are difficult issues and they think that that will impact the legacy longer lasting manner. >> five million americans have lost their healthcare plan and they are projected that number is projected to go to 78 million. >> this is bigger than about a web site. this is a level of insecurity that's been injected into the citizenry. the people are nervous about their healthcare, about losing their healthcare and as charles said, it's gone from individual policies being lost to now people who have small business policies are going to be losing them in the next year. i think this is a serious political problem for the. >> one thing i do want to say is i. >> we are all joining that church.

>> all membership. that's something we can agree on. >> that's it for the panel. and deacon williams. but stay tuned. if you are already gearing up for black friday shopping and a lot of folks are one retailer is offering a brand new option you don't want to miss. stick around. hi honey, did you get e toaster cozy?

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finally tonight, there are already shoppers camped out and waiting for those black friday bargains. one retailer wants to make it easy for them to maximize the concept of one-stop shopping. check it out. >> you are about to see some big changes at cosco. in fact, some people are wondering if cass co-'s brand new shoppings carts are designed to make you shop more. the new carts are wider. taller and lighter than most others. [ laughter ] they also have more room underneath the main basket. >> i like the motor on there what do you think? >> very cool. >> thank you so much for

watching "special report." i'm shannon bream in tonight for bret baier. good night from washington where we remain proud and fearless. "on the record" is next. fear and uncertainty, americans are afraid of what is coming. when will the other shoe drop? >> i got a letter from my insurance carrier back in june actually telling us that our policies were going to be cancelled effective january 1st of 2014. >> millions of americans are uncertain about their health insurance as it has been cancelled as ours has. >> so uncertain, that's probably the biggest problem is we don't know what the tomorrow will bring. >> out-of-pocket -- >> let it be. let it go and hope can i stay healthy. >> very healthy and the young and i should be paying the lower